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Request Log
We are now tracking data requests through issues. See our project page
Kate emailed Human resources (hrinformation@duluthmn.gov) on 2016-11-16.
After a short conversation with Joe Konstan, I was directed towards Jon Steadland (jsteadla@umn.edu) as a potential person to contact. I sent an email on 2016-11-16 to Jon describing mnpay and asking if he would have some time to talk about getting the University to participate in this aspect of government transparency.
I gave Jon a call ((612)626-5148) after hearing no response back. I left him a message with my contact info asking him if he had given the matter any more thought and to respond to my email or give me a call back.
2016-11-22 (ASH): I found this as a possible additional point of contact: "For summary or trend data, contact Payroll Services, U of Minnesota Office of Human Resources, at 612-624-4585."
2016-11-30 (ASH): I emailed Jalayne Nottom (j-nott@umn.edu) asking for an extract of the 2016 payroll data from the UMN data warehouse. She was listed as the primary contact for payroll data on the data warehouse site.
These were collected directly from the Minnesota state website.
https://mn.gov/mmb/transparency-mn/payrolldata.jsp
Sent an email out to Rick Hodsdon (rick.hodsdon@co.washington.mn.us) on Nov 5.
Got an email back later on Nov 5 indicating I had cited the wrong piece of legislation (M.S. 13.46 when I should have been citing M.S. 13.43. Responded indicating that he was correct and clarified that I wanted electronic copies of the data.
Email from Rick Hodson on 2016-11-10. He is working with various parts of the county (payroll and personnel) to find how to best process the request. I replied back indicating that job description and first-and-last date of employment can be excluded if it would expedite the request.
Heard back on 2016-11-16 from Rick. It looks like they can send the data on a disc for five dollars plus postage. I responded that I would pay for postage and asked them about how/when they wanted to be payed.
On 2016-11-17 Rick responded saying that he would get me a final cost once the disc is shipped to him. I can then send and check and advise him on where to mail it.
2016-11-30 (KJS): Sent an email out to Rick to see if there are any updates on this since it has been a while since his last response.
Sent a data request to Cook County through a form on their website on 2016-11-05.
Got a response back from Molly Hicken (molly.hicken@co.cook.mn.us) with Jeff Cadwell CCed (jeff.cadwell@co.cook.mn.us) on 2016-11-07 clarifying whether I wanted them in electronic or paper form and whether, if I wanted them electronically, I wanted a disk mailed to me or for them to be published through a Sharepoint site with a temporary user name and password. I responded the same day requesting electronic copies shared through a Sharepoint site and also clarified the legislation that I was citing (13.46 -> 13.43).
I heard back from Molly Hicken on 2016-11-15. She reported back from Jeff Cadwell:
We believe that it would take 2 hours to pull the readily available data for current and past employees. We would have all data requested readily available for current employees. We would have less data readily available for historical employee information. The cost for 2 hours of staff time to access and compile the information would be $40.00 We could have this data available in 7-10 days.
I emailed her back on 2016-11-18 asking if it would reduce the time required by focusing just on current employees. I also indicated who we are and what the data would be used for, as well as our interest in working with the data sets they have readily available as to avoid them having to spend extra time and incurring extra expense.
Sent a data request to Cammie Young (cammie.young@co.lake.mn.us) on 2016-11-7. There was no one clear person to contact so this may involve some bouncing around to get the correct person.
Got bounced over to Laura Auron (Laura.Auron@co.lake.mn.us), the Lake County Attorney on 2016-11-8. She asked for clarification on on what I meant by "readily available" for years of records. I responded indicating that if the year was archived in a manner that took more than 10 minutes to return it to a working form not to bother with it. She seemed to think that helped and sent the request on to human resources.
Sent a data request to James Gottschald (gottschaldj@stlouiscountymn.gov) on 2016-11-7. He is who they have down under "Human Resources" so probably an okay place to start.
Got a response on 2016-11-10. He had met with his staff and had some preliminary cost estimates and that he wanted me to call him. I attempted to call him twice in the morning that day, but was unable to get a response. I followed up with an email asking for a specific time that he would be available.
After a few more emails back and forth on 2016-11-10 I got a cost estimate from James. He is claiming 3 hours per year of data (since they need to manually gather the actual gross salary for the employees who separated prior to the end of the year) and a range of $130 to $145 per year. This cost estimate seems excessive given the time claim, but I did not raise the issue at this time. The records extend back to 2005. I responded attempting to clarify what he meant by "manually gather the actual gross salary", since chances are I can get by without it. Additionally I inquired about the system that they were using, suggesting that they probably have a backing database that would be able to get all the results in the course of a few minutes.
Got a response on 2016-11-11. They are using a payroll system called ePersonality by High Line. They have an Oracle database and use Microsoft Access or Crystal Reports to pull the data. Apparently because I am requesting separated employees they need to query "numerous pay tables". I'm still skeptical of the actual difficulty, but I offered to omit employees that separated if that makes it easier. After send out that email I realized that this should be following the same workflow as the W-2 creation process so I sent a follow up inquiring if they follow that same workflow.
He responded on 2016-11-11. He believes that the W-2 workflow will get something other than gross annual salary and may actually take more time. He also thinks that omitting anyone that did not work until the end of the year will drop the time down to 1 hour per year. This still seems far too long, but is better than before. I responded asking him how much the hourly wage would be and he told me that he would get back to me on Monday (2016-11-14) with that information.
He got back to me on 2016-11-14 claiming that the hourly rate was going to be $62.48. I responded asking if this was the genuine lowest rate the the minimally qualified employee to retrieve this information, pointing out Advisory Opinion 04-056.
On 2016-11-15 he responded indicating that they were aware of the advisory opinion. He believes that the cost is appropriate and that the task is complex enough that the HR staff supervisor needs to do the work. Another employee could be assigned ($33.21/hour) but then it would take longer. I responded expressing my skepticism at the difficulty of this task given that they have an SQL database and asking to either be sent the database schema or find a time to come by and inspect it.
Filled out a contact form for the City of Rochester City Clerk, Aaron Reeves on 2016/11/10. I found documentation that the City of Rochester designated the City Clerk as the responsible authority. I received a response stating that the request was too broad because it would cover thousands of employees and would take months. I responded that I believed that an electronic payroll system and HR records should be easily accessible, and that job descriptions, first and last hire dates and records not stored electronically could be omitted.
2016/11/14: Aaron Reeves replied saying that the data is in several different software systems in various formats, and only name, title and salary would be relatively simple and he would be willing to get me a cost estimate. I called him at 507-328-2911 and left a message asking for more clarification on the systems they use and the data that is easily available.
2016/11/23: Called and left a message again for Aaron Reeves.
2016/11/28: Received a call from Linda Hillenbrand, Director of Human Resources for the City of Rochester (507-328-2555), who prepared the estimate for Aaron Reeves. She will get back to me by the end of the week with a time and cost estimate. She stated that they use a system called "JD Edwards" for their payroll data, and the system "rolls over with the new year", so they would have to write individual reports to extract this type of "historical data". I clarified with her that we would like name, salary, title and department/division, she said that employee compensation is sometimes listed as hourly, which I told her was ok. She said that as far as labor and cost, one year of data would be the easiest.
Emailed Olmsted County Human Resources at humanresources@co.olmsted.mn.us on 2016/11/10.
2016/11/14: Emailed the County Attourney at county.attorney@co.olmsted.mn.us.
2016/11/15: Email from David Mueller, Director of Intergovernmental Relations/Data Practices/Organizational Development (mueller.dave@co.olmsted.mn.us) stating that Human Resources received my request and will be in contact with me about the costs and timeline of my request.
2016/11/23: Call from Dave Muller, Olmsted County (507-328-6026). His impression was that we asked for too much information. Olmsted County has records back to ~1980 on microfilm, paper and electronic records, with the majority of employees in electronic format. They use CGI AMS software for their database. I explained that we only want recent data (2012-present) and gave mnpay.org as an example. He will talk to HR and get back to me with an estimate of labor/cost on Monday (11/28).
I'm trying out a more pro bono publico approach with Saint Paul. Rather than submitting a chapter 13 request, I sent an appeal to Ashley Aram (ashley.aram@ci.stpaul.mn.us) to release the data and make it public by default. This request was bounced back notifying that she would be out from Nov 11 to Nov 27 and redirecting to Tonya Tennessen (Tonya.Tennessen@ci.stpaul.mn.us). I then resent the same email to Tonya.