Download page: can it be simplified?

[rubyFeedback]

It seems someone has recently changed https://nodejs.org/en/download.

I can no longer find what I am looking for.

In the past I tried to download the source.

We had simple links such as:

https://nodejs.org/dist/v20.18.0/node-v20.18.0.tar.xz

These were made available on the download page.

Could someone please have a look at the new download page there,
and simplify it in that we can quickly and easily find a direct link to
the source release? I now have to click on some weird buttons such
as "linux". And still not find it. The old layout was sooooo much simpler.

I also now seem to get a combo-box. This is actually less efficient
UI design, because now I have to scroll to the version I want (stable
or unstable) and then still not know what is the real URL.

I figured out the URL by using this one:

https://nodejs.org/dist/v22.13.0/node-v22.13.0.tar.xz

But I did so manually. If you don't want to add this information
back, perhaps you could add a separate link with the direct
URL as-is, just like it used to be in the past.

[targos]

@nodejs/nodejs-website

[ovflowd]

You want the source, go to GitHub. The downloads page is possibly not meant for that. The GitHub link is right on the top right corner, click it, select a tag and download a zip.

We're not aiming on having a dedicated button for source downloads (as it adds more confusion). And the current downloads page is way simpler than it was before (based on studies and careful UX), so although I understand you find it harder, because you were not able to find a source download link which was intentionally removed; That doesn't make the download page necessarily "less simple" -- do not take your individual edge case experience as a blame, please; Although we'll keep an eye if we see more similar feedback.

I don't think we intend to change this behaviour, although I'm neutral on adding a footer link within the download page (together with the rest of links) to download the source; But I'm slightly opposed based on how many people actually use that website to download the source.

[ovflowd]

(take my commentary with 2 grains of salt; I understand why you are upset, but the tone here and phrasing isn't the best for addressing your issue and proposing a solution; The feedback at the bottom was totally fine, and you could have just said that 🙇)

[joyeecheung]

You want the source, go to GitHub. The downloads page is possibly not meant for that. The GitHub link is right on the top right corner, click it, select a tag and download a zip.

I feel that for the source it's better to document how to get it somewhere instead of relying on website pointers. It's usually used by embedders and distributions, in which case, they probably want to check the signature. I am not sure if the tarballs released by GitHub when a release is tagged can be verified with the signature properly? And in any case, to the get signature, they still have to get it from e.g. https://nodejs.org/dist/v22.13.0/SHASUMS256.txt

[joyeecheung]

Actually I am fairly sure that you can't use the GitHub release source tarballs for verification - they don't even have the same size as the source tarballs in the dist directory, as we remove quite a bit from the release source tarballs https://github.com/nodejs/node/blob/d0ff34f4b690ad49c86b6df8fd424f39d183e1a6/Makefile#L1224-L1251

[ovflowd]

You want the source, go to GitHub. The downloads page is possibly not meant for that. The GitHub link is right on the top right corner, click it, select a tag and download a zip.

I feel that for the source it's better to document how to get it somewhere instead of relying on website pointers. It's usually used by embedders and distributions, in which case, they probably want to check the signature. I am not sure if the tarballs released by GitHub when a release is tagged can be verified with the signature properly? And in any case, to the get signature, they still have to get it from e.g. nodejs.org/dist/v22.13.0/SHASUMS256.txt

So, should we add a link as the "solution"? 🤔

[joyeecheung]

There are already a bunch of links on the download page, I guess it doesn't hurt to either add link to a document that describes how to build releases from source (which is less so for contributors but more for embedders, re-packaged forks and distributions) - I can't even find make binary documented anywhere it seems, for the official releases this part is hidden in our CI config - or at least add this information to BUILDING.md

[aduh95]

Frustrations I have with the current Download page:

• The Learn how to build Node.js from source link does not link to the source nor give info where to acquire it.
• The Check out all previous releases link does not link to the previous releases.

It definitely happened when working with a colleague to reproduce a bug on different Node.js versions, we visited the Download page, try a few links, and we had to give up and manually go to https://nodejs.org/dist/, because luckily I knew of that index.

[ovflowd]

Frustrations I have with the current Download page:

• The Learn how to build Node.js from source link does not link to the source nor give info where to acquire it.
• The Check out all previous releases link does not link to the previous releases.

It definitely happened when working with a colleague to reproduce a bug on different Node.js versions, we visited the Download page, try a few links, and we had to give up and manually go to nodejs.org/dist, because luckily I knew of that index.

The Learn how to build Node.js from source link does not link to the source nor give info where to acquire it.

The link goes directly to BUILDING.md on Node.js core repository, which is exactly where you get to know how to build from the source. If you believe Node core docs are insufficient, I doubt that's an us issue, although I'm more than happy to collaborate on making this better, even if it is a Learn material on Node.js Website

The Check out all previous releases link does not link to the previous releases.

The link goes exactly to that section although for some reason it is not highlight/auto scrolling to said place. @bmuenzenmeyer something seems to have been broken as I cannot see it scrolling anymore. Looks like the URL itself is wrong. Let me fix it on a hot-fix.

[aduh95]

The link goes directly to BUILDING.md on Node.js core repository, which is exactly where you get to know how to build from the source

I'm not looking on documentation for how to build from source, I'm looking for the source files, i.e. the signed tarballs. (FWIW the tarballs contain BUILDING.md, so I'll read that if I need to)

The link goes exactly to that section although for some reason it is not highlight/auto scrolling to said place.

AFAICT it does not, only the latest version of each release lines are listed there (if I want to download e.g. 23.1.0). Disabling JS reveals the link I was looking for.

[ovflowd]

I'm not looking on documentation for how to build from source, I'm looking for the source files, i.e. the signed tarballs. (FWIW the tarballs contain BUILDING.md, so I'll read that if I need to)

Yes, that link you referenced aren't source links. The clearly says "Learn how to build Node.js from source"... And I already agreed with @joyeecheung into adding another sentence to reference source tarballs for a given version. I will open a PR shortly.

[ovflowd]

AFAICT it does not, only the latest version of each release lines are listed there (if I want to download e.g. 23.1.0). Disabling JS reveals the link I was looking for.

Yes, because without JS determining your OS becomes impossible on the client-side. Regarding it only showing the latest version, I believe that's the only thing that makes sense here. I'd like @nodejs/releasers to chime in here, as it doesn't make sense for us to redirect to users to an UI that shows previous minor versions of a major release... It does tho make sense to show all previous major versions at their latest minors.

[aduh95]

Regarding it only showing the latest version, I believe that's the only thing that makes sense here. it doesn't make sense for us to redirect to users to an UI that shows previous minor versions of a major release... It does tho make sense to show all previous major versions at their latest minors.

I disagree; for example, there's no way I'm ever gonna need to download v0.12.18, on the other hand I have use cases for downloading older versions of 23.x or 22.x. (and I realize my use-case is not universal, I'm pointing it out to show that any filtering is arbitrary and is not going to accommodate everyone)

I'd like @nodejs/releasers to chime in here

As a user: it would be perfectly fine to link to https://nodejs.org/download/release/ and let the user figure out what they need from it – users who need a specific version of Node.js are power users, they don't need to be babysat with some fancy HTML/CSS, and we don't need to decide for them what versions they should be looking for.

As a releaser: it doesn't impact releasing at all, so whatever the website team wants to do is fine.

[ovflowd]

As a user: it would be perfectly fine to link to nodejs.org/download/release and let the user figure out what it needs from it – users who need a specific version of Node.js are power users, they don't need to be babysat with some fancy HTML/CSS, and we don't need to decide for them what versions they should be looking for.

I understand that, but you're a power user and an experienced Node.js maintainer. Most of people will immediately give up once they see an "index of" page. And most of the users will want just older major versions, not older minor versions. For users like you, it is easier to just go to nodejs.org/download/releases.

As a releaser: it doesn't impact releasing at all, so whatever the website team wants to do is fine.

Yet, I believe it falls on Releasers domain of how they intended of releases being used.

I appreciate your feedback, Antoine, but I unfortunately am not going to make said change. I believe most if not all website maintainers here will agree with me here. Appreciate your feedback tho.