-
Notifications
You must be signed in to change notification settings - Fork 0
/
diary-jun-2010.htm
682 lines (679 loc) · 72.4 KB
/
diary-jun-2010.htm
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
481
482
483
484
485
486
487
488
489
490
491
492
493
494
495
496
497
498
499
500
501
502
503
504
505
506
507
508
509
510
511
512
513
514
515
516
517
518
519
520
521
522
523
524
525
526
527
528
529
530
531
532
533
534
535
536
537
538
539
540
541
542
543
544
545
546
547
548
549
550
551
552
553
554
555
556
557
558
559
560
561
562
563
564
565
566
567
568
569
570
571
572
573
574
575
576
577
578
579
580
581
582
583
584
585
586
587
588
589
590
591
592
593
594
595
596
597
598
599
600
601
602
603
604
605
606
607
608
609
610
611
612
613
614
615
616
617
618
619
620
621
622
623
624
625
626
627
628
629
630
631
632
633
634
635
636
637
638
639
640
641
642
643
644
645
646
647
648
649
650
651
652
653
654
655
656
657
658
659
660
661
662
663
664
665
666
667
668
669
670
671
672
673
674
675
676
677
678
679
680
681
682
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" lang="en" xml:lang="en">
<head>
<title>diary-jun-2010 </title>
<link href=".code/preferred.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"/>
</head>
<body>
<p class='header'>
<a href="_home.htm">Home</a> | <a href="_faq.htm">FAQ</a> | <a href="_thesis.htm">Thesis</a> | <a href="_diary.htm">Diary</a> | <a href="_projects.htm">Projects</a> | <a href="resume.htm">Resume</a> | <a href="_todo.htm">Todo</a> | <a href="_index.htm">Index</a> |<p>
<p class='main'><span class="rel">Related:</span> <a href="diary.htm">diary</a><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-30-2010:</span> Posted to a private list<br/>
<br/>
One problem I see with <a href="back.htm">back</a>ing a <a href="curr.htm">curr</a>ency by labor *time* is the incentive it creates for <a href="work.htm">work</a>ers to 'milk' <a href="job.htm">job</a>s and to generally want to '<a href="protect.htm">protect</a>' <a href="job.htm">job</a>s from being fully solved or automated away.<br/>
<br/>
What I don't understand <small>(and a point that has been brought up by others - on the Oekonux list I think)</small> is that the auction described <small>(when including the weighting)</small> is <a href="real.htm">real</a>ly no <a href="diff.htm">diff</a>e<a href="rent.htm">rent</a> from letting "the market" decide how much a Consumer should <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> a <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>er.<br/>
<br/>
I <a href="agree.htm">agree</a> it is good to organize so Consumers and <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>ers can 'connect', but I wonder if a sort of "bulletin board" where each person can list the goods and services they personally offer <small>(like "I have too many tomatoes" or "I <a href="know.htm">know</a> how to fix plumbing", etc.)</small> and also the goods and services they need <small>(like "I need tomatoes" or "I need a plumber")</small>. But I have not put quite enough <a href="work.htm">work</a> into the details of this...<br/>
<br/>
I'm also concerned about the "Central Planning" feel of having a software program <a href="mak.htm">mak</a>e some of these decisions, though maybe I am just misunderstanding.<br/>
<br/>
Another problem for me is the <a href="ide.htm">ide</a>a of a "flat rate" <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>out of the <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>ed goods, but I don't have time right now to fully explain my concern.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-29-2010:</span> Reading <a class="ext" href="http://EconLib.org/library/Bastiat/basSoph1.html">http://EconLib.org/library/Bastiat/basSoph1.html</a><br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">"'Which is preferable for man and for society, abundance or scarcity?<br/>
<br/>
"What!" people may exclaim. "How can there be any question about it? Has anyone ever suggested, or is it possible to maintain, that scarcity is the basis of man's well-being?"<br/>
<br/>
Yes, this has been suggested; yes, this has been maintained and is maintained every day, and I do not hesitate to say that the theory of scarcity is by far the most <a href="pop.htm">pop</a>ular of all theories. It is the burden of conversations, <a href="new.htm">new</a>spaper <a href="art.htm">art</a>icles, books, and political <a href="speech.htm">speech</a>es; and, strange as it may seem, it is certain that political <a href="econ.htm">econ</a>omy will not have a completed its task and performed its practical function until it has <a href="pop.htm">pop</a>ularized and established as indisputable this very simple <a href="prop.htm">prop</a>osition: "Wealth consists in an abundance of commodities."<br/>
<br/>
Do we not hear it said every day: "Foreigners are going to flood us with their <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>ts"? Thus, people fear abundance.<br/>
<br/>
Has not M. de Saint-Cricq said: "There is over<a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion"? Thus, he was afraid of abundance.<br/>
<br/>
Do not the <a href="work.htm">work</a>ers wreck <a href="mac.htm">mac</a>hines? Thus, they are afraid of over<a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion, or--in other words--of abundance.<br/>
<br/>
Has not M. Bugeaud uttered these words: "Let bread be dear, and the farmer will be rich"? Now, bread can be dear only because it is scarce. Thus, M. Bugeaud was extolling scarcity.<br/>
<br/>
Has not M. d'Argout based his argument against the sugar industry on its very <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tivity? Has he not said again and again: "The sugar beet has no future, and its cultivation cannot be extended, because just a few hectares of sugar beets in each de<a href="part.htm">part</a>ment would be enough to supply all the consumers in France"? Thus, as he sees things, good consists in barrenness and scarcity; and evil, in fertility and abundance.<br/>
<br/>
Do not La Presse, Le Commerce, and the majority of the daily <a href="new.htm">new</a>spapers publish one or more <a href="art.htm">art</a>icles every morning to prove to the Chambers and to the government that it is sound policy to legislate higher <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>es for everything through manipulation of the tariff? Do not the Chambers and the government every day comply with this injunction from the press? But tariffs raise the <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>es of things only because they reduce their supply in the market! Thus, the <a href="new.htm">new</a>spapers, the Chambers, and the government put the theory of scarcity into practice, and I was right to say that this theory is by far the most <a href="pop.htm">pop</a>ular of all theories.<br/>
'"</span><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-29-2010:</span> Reading <a class="ext" href="http://Medaille.com/distributivism-encyclopedia.pdf">Medaille.com/distributivism-encyclopedia.pdf</a><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-29-2010:</span> Reading <a class="ext" href="http://UpjohnInst.org/publications/wp/02-82.pdf">UpjohnInst.org/publications/wp/02-82.pdf</a><br/>
<br/>
"Information Technology, Organizational Form, and Transition to the Market"<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">"'The paper reviews theories of information technology adoption and organizational form and applies them to an empirical analysis of firm choices and characteristics in four transition <a href="econ.htm">econ</a>omies: the Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, and Slovakia. We argue that these <a href="econ.htm">econ</a>omies have gone through two major structural changes -- one concerning technology and another concerning <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership and boundaries of firms -- and we consider if and how each of the two structural changes has affected the other. We test the impact of firm size, integration, and <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership on the extent of <a href="new.htm">new</a> information technology adoption <small>(measured by growth in the <a href="fract.htm">fract</a>ion of <a href="employ.htm">employ</a>ees using personal <a href="compu.htm">compu</a>ters or <a href="compu.htm">compu</a>ter- controlled <a href="mac.htm">mac</a>hinery)</small>, and the impact of information technology on changes in the boundaries and the <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership structure of enterprises, drawing upon a sample survey of 330 firms.'"</span><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-29-2010:</span> <a href="employ.htm">Employ</a>ment or Efficiency? Struggle or Solutions?<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-28-2010:</span> Posted <a class="ext" href="http://P2PFoundation.net/List_of_approaches">P2PFoundation.net/List_of_approaches</a><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Buying Club]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Club Goods]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Co-Creation]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Co-<a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Common Security Clubs]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Consumers Cooperative]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Copyfar<a href="left.htm">left</a>]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Crowd<a href="sourc.htm">sourc</a>ing]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Distributism]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[<a href="econ.htm">Econ</a>omic Democracy]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Food Cooperative]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Give Away <a href="econ.htm">Econ</a>omy]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Intention <a href="econ.htm">Econ</a>omy]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Neighborhood <a href="rent.htm">Rent</a>ing and Loan Systems]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Neocommercialization]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Open Capital]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[P2P in Multi-Unit Housing]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[<a href="pay.htm">Pay</a>er Grown]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Peer <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>tion]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Peer Trust <a href="net.htm">Net</a><a href="work.htm">work</a> Project]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Peer-to-Peer <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>t-Service Systems]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Peerconomy]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[<a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>t-Service System]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[<a href="proper.htm">Proper</a>ty <a href="left.htm">Left</a>]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Public Private <a href="proper.htm">Proper</a>ty]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Seikatsu Cooperatives]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[United Diversity]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[<a href="use.htm">Use</a> Communities]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[<a href="user own.htm">User Own</a>ed]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[Utilicontributism]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[<a href="work.htm">Work</a>er Cooperative]</small>]</small><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <small>[<small>[<a href="work.htm">Work</a>er <a href="own.htm">Own</a>ed]</small>]</small><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-28-2010:</span> Posted to <a class="ext" href="http://ListCultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures">ListCultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures</a><br/>
<br/>
Ryan Lanham wrote:<br/>
<span class="quot">> We socialized risk, but not reward.</span><br/>
<br/>
It is true that Capitalists do not 'socialize' reward, but that does not mean it cannot be done.<br/>
It is possible to organize afresh in such a way that reward <small>(<a href="profit.htm">profit</a>)</small> is treated <a href="diff.htm">diff</a>e<a href="rent.htm">rent</a>ly.<br/>
<br/>
The treatment of <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> is usually pre-determined to be a <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>ment for those who have Invested.<br/>
But wait a minute, ... what if we could <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> Inve<a href="stor.htm">stor</a>s directly with the <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>t instead?<br/>
<br/>
That would only be meaningful if the Inve<a href="stor.htm">stor</a>s were simultaneously the Consumers of that very <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>t, and if they only Invest as much as they predict they will need.<br/>
<br/>
So, for example, if a group of Milk Consumers organized to purchase a small dairy, they would prepay for the total <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a>s of that <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion, and their return for that Investment would the <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>t itself = Milk.<br/>
<br/>
There would be no <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> unless somebody accidentally Invested too much. And in that case, the extra milk could be sold, and considering the ridiculous over<a href="pric.htm">pric</a>ing of raw milk, it would be easy to charge a <a href="pric.htm">Pric</a>e above <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a>.<br/>
<br/>
But then what should the group do with that 'reward'? What would it mean to 'socialize' the <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a>?<br/>
<br/>
Well, what if they acted as though the late-comer who paid that extra value were also <a href="mak.htm">mak</a>ing an investment?<br/>
<br/>
What if we treated <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> as though it were an Investment from the Consumer who paid it?<br/>
<br/>
Doing so would taper <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> <small>(and therefore growth)</small> toward zero since a Consumer who <a href="own.htm">own</a>s the Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es of the <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>t he <a href="use.htm">use</a>s does not <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> - for he <a href="own.htm">own</a>s the <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>t even before it is created as a side-effect of his having <a href="proper.htm">proper</a>ty in the Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es.<br/>
<br/>
This would cause the organization to grow according to Consumer demand <small>(<a href="pay.htm">pay</a>ing <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> being the <a href="sourc.htm">sourc</a>e of that growth)</small>, in a 'distributed' manner since the very person willing to <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> for that growth becomes the direct beneficiary because he gains <a href="real.htm">real</a> <a href="proper.htm">proper</a>ty <a href="co-own.htm">co-own</a>ership and therefore control over those Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es.<br/>
<br/>
And since a Consumer with <a href="proper.htm">Proper</a>ty in Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>s no <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> <small>(since he does not buy the <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>t, but <a href="own.htm">own</a>s it already)</small>, this also causes growth to naturally taper toward zero <small>[actually growth would follow the same curve as the demand for that <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>t]</small>.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">> For now, all that can be done is to save and to wait.</span><br/>
<br/>
That sounds like no strategy at all.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-25-2010:</span> Posted to <a class="ext" href="http://ListCultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures">ListCultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures</a><br/>
It is worth noting that the <a href="gnu.htm">GNU</a> <a href="gpl.htm">GPL</a> - which is <a href="curr.htm">curr</a>ently the most<br/>
<a href="pop.htm">pop</a>ular <a href="free.htm">Free</a> Software license - does *not* require attribution, and<br/>
yet has been instrumental in creating probably the most stable commons<br/>
for <a href="virt.htm">virt</a>ual materials we have yet seen.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-25-2010:</span> Posted to <a class="ext" href="http://P2PFoundation.net/Talk:Business_Model">http://P2PFoundation.net/Talk:Business_Model</a><br/>
Can your business <a href="mod.htm">mod</a>el survive Abundance?'<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-25-2010:</span> Posted to <a class="ext" href="http://P2PFoundation.net/Investor">P2PFoundation.net/Investor</a><br/>
Inve<a href="stor.htm">stor</a>s may be:<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> Consumers pre-<a href="pay.htm">pay</a>ing for some <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>t but receiving <a href="co-own.htm">co-own</a>ership in the Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es. For example, a group of consumers could buy a milk dairy so they can receive the milk At <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a> and under their full control.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <a href="work.htm">Work</a>ers committing to perform some a<a href="mount.htm">mount</a> of labor or achieve some a<a href="mount.htm">mount</a> of results within some frame of time. In a better world this <a href="promis.htm">Promis</a>e to <a href="pay.htm">Pay</a> can be <a href="use.htm">use</a>d as a personally issued <a href="curr.htm">curr</a>ency.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> Angels who inject re<a href="sourc.htm">sourc</a>es <small>(<a href="mone.htm">Mone</a>y or Capital)</small> with the plan to extract <a href="pric.htm">Pric</a>e Above <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a> from consumers who do not yet have sufficient <a href="proper.htm">proper</a>ty <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership in Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-25-2010:</span> Posted to <a class="ext" href="http://P2PFoundation.net/Talk:Profit">http://P2PFoundation.net/Talk:Profit</a><br/>
If <a href="profit.htm">profit</a> is the result of <a href="work.htm">Work</a>er effort, then:<br/>
<br/>
* Why does it disappear when the Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es are <a href="user own.htm">User Own</a>ed?<br/>
<br/>
* Why does it decrease as Abundance increases?<br/>
<br/>
* Why does it vary by where the <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>t is sold?<br/>
<br/>
* Why does it persist after that <a href="job.htm">job</a> is Automated?<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-25-2010:</span> Posted to <a class="ext" href="http://P2PFoundation.net/Talk:Dumping">http://P2PFoundation.net/Talk:Dumping</a><br/>
<br/>
Dumping is a problem for Inve<a href="stor.htm">stor</a>s who expect to be paid with <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a>, but is not a problem for those who invest for <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>t.<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-24-2010:</span> Thinking again about I<a href="land.htm">Land</a> as a better name for the now abandoned <a href="ecocom.htm">EcoCom</a>ics simulation. Also looking at <a class="ext" href="http://GarlicSim.org">GarlicSim.org</a> as the basis of <a href="mod.htm">mod</a>eling<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-24-2010:</span> <span class="quot">"'For the want of the <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>e of tea and a slice, the old man died...'"</span> -- "Us and Them", Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-23-2010:</span> Joined <a class="ext" href="http://PublicPrivateProperty.org">PublicPrivateProperty.org</a><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-22-2010:</span> Posted to a private list<br/>
<br/>
Alex Rollin wrote:<br/>
<span class="quot">> I do see it as necessary, though, to refine the thinking upon which the <a href="ide.htm">ide</a>a</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> draws so that others may create their <a href="own.htm">own</a> solutions, and so that those who</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> look into the <a href="ide.htm">ide</a>a will find references and be able to draw their <a href="own.htm">own</a></span><br/>
<span class="quot">> conclusions based on publicly available documentation.</span><br/>
<br/>
I <a href="agree.htm">agree</a>. This is <a href="part.htm">part</a> of the reason I would like to see P2P wiki <a href="start.htm">start</a> using the autolink plugin.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">> Do you have <a href="edit.htm">edit</a> permissions for the p2p wiki?</span><br/>
<br/>
Yes, I'm at <a class="ext" href="http://P2PFoundation.net/User:Ownut">http://P2PFoundation.net/User:Ownut</a><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">> Are you writing about the project somewhere else?</span><br/>
<br/>
Yes, but I don't update my <a href="web.htm">web</a>site very often. I need to condense and rewrite much of what I've already done...<br/>
<br/>
For now, these are probably the best pages to consider:<br/>
<br/>
<a class="ext" href="http://patware.freeshell.org/faq.htm">http://patware.freeshell.org/faq.htm</a><br/>
<a class="ext" href="http://p2pfoundation.net/User_Owned">http://p2pfoundation.net/User_Owned</a><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">> Have you met others who are similarly interested?</span><br/>
<br/>
Not <a href="real.htm">real</a>ly. There are 2 main 'problems' with my approach:<br/>
<br/>
1.)</small> I say Consumers should organize to purchase and <a href="own.htm">own</a> the Means of <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>tion <small>(Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es)</small>, whereas most everyone else that is considering anything other than 'regular' Capitalism are sure the <a href="work.htm">Work</a>ers must do this. When Consumers <a href="own.htm">own</a> the <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es of the things they need, they no longer buy those <a href="obj.htm">Obj</a>ectives, but <a href="own.htm">own</a> them already as a 'side-effect' of their <a href="own.htm">own</a>ing the <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es. They must <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> all <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a>s, including any Wages if they do not do all the <a href="work.htm">work</a> themselves, but they do not <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> because the final transaction of selling does not even occur since the outputs of that <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion are already in the '<a href="proper.htm">proper</a>' hands.<br/>
<br/>
2.)</small> I say <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> should be collected <small>(we should charge <a href="pric.htm">Pric</a>e above <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a>)</small>, and yet also say we must treat that value as that <a href="pay.htm">Pay</a>er's investment. This is a very strange <a href="ide.htm">ide</a>a to most people - so they usually don't want to spend the effort of thinking through the reasoning, otherwise they would see the profound effect this causes, for when Consumers <a href="own.htm">own</a> the <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es of the things they need, then <a href="pric.htm">Pric</a>e == <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a> and <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> == 0 AND the Consumer is finally in full control of <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion. This also changes the entire goal of the organization from seeking <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> to seeking <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>t. This change in direction is massive since the desire to keep <a href="pric.htm">Pric</a>e above <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a> is what incents the <a href="art.htm">Art</a>ificial Scarcity and Purposeful Destruction in Capitalist and <a href="work.htm">Work</a>er <a href="own.htm">Own</a>ed orgs.<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-22-2010:</span> Posted to a private list<br/>
Dante-Gabryell Monson wrote:<br/>
<span class="quot">> You are based in the <a href="stat.htm">stat</a>es ? Or on the european subcontinent ?</span><br/>
<br/>
Utah, US<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">> I notice you relate yourself</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> to <a class="ext" href="http://www.telekommunisten.net/venture-communism">http://www.telekommunisten.net/venture-communism</a> ?</span><br/>
<br/>
Well, I've been communicating with Dmytri Kleiner for quite a few<br/>
years because of his clarity in writing about <a href="fund.htm">fund</a>amental concepts in<br/>
<a href="econ.htm">econ</a>omics.<br/>
<br/>
But I do not fully subscribe to the "Venture Communism" plan because<br/>
it has the same flaw that almost all 'alternative' organizational<br/>
forms seem suffer: it assumes that <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership of the Means of<br/>
<a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>tion must be limited to those who have the <a href="skill.htm">skill</a>s need to<br/>
operate them <small>(the <a href="work.htm">Work</a>ers)</small>, whereas my approach is to <a href="insur.htm">insur</a>e the Means<br/>
of <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>tion are held by those who need the outputs <small>(the Consumers)</small>.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">> If you <a href="pass.htm">pass</a> nearby Berlin in August, we could meet at the ecotopia or in</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> Leipzig.</span><br/>
<br/>
I'd love to, but must spend most of my time earning Federal Reserve<br/>
<a href="note.htm">Note</a>s to <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>-<a href="back.htm">back</a> <a href="bank.htm">bank</a>ers <small>(who initially created the FRNs "out of thin<br/>
air")</small> so I have a place to sleep.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">> Alex Rollin has been <a href="work.htm">work</a>ing on a cooperative <a href="mod.htm">mod</a>el :</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> <a class="ext" href="http://alexrollin.com/content/cooperative-ecology-project">http://alexrollin.com/content/cooperative-ecology-project</a></span><br/>
<span class="quot">> <a class="ext" href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Cooperative_Ecology_Project">http://p2pfoundation.net/Cooperative_Ecology_Project</a></span><br/>
<br/>
Yes, I am 'watching' this wiki page.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">> While I am discussing with Gael and Jan on the design of a tool enabling</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> re<a href="sourc.htm">sourc</a>e allocation through accr<a href="edit.htm">edit</a>ation - but we still need to find a way</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> of programming it.</span><br/>
<br/>
Could you give me a concrete example of what you mean by "re<a href="sourc.htm">sourc</a>e allocation"?<br/>
<br/>
I have some <a href="ide.htm">ide</a>as about how to "allocate re<a href="sourc.htm">sourc</a>es" through auction,<br/>
but am not sure that is what you mean.<br/>
<br/>
Here is my concrete example:<br/>
<br/>
A single <a href="mac.htm">mac</a>hine can be shared among a finite number of people. As<br/>
the number of consumers attempting to utilize the <a href="mac.htm">mac</a>hine increases,<br/>
at some point it will be impossible to fullfill those requests with a<br/>
single <a href="mac.htm">mac</a>hine.<br/>
<br/>
If the collective <a href="own.htm">own</a>ers have the time-sharing of that <a href="mac.htm">mac</a>hine setup<br/>
so that anyone wanting to <a href="rent.htm">rent</a> it are bidding against each other, then<br/>
more time slots can be filled.<br/>
<br/>
People that want to <a href="rent.htm">rent</a> close to '<a href="cost.htm">cost</a>', and are willing to lose some<br/>
sleep will <a href="rent.htm">rent</a> at 2am, while other people may be willing to "fight it<br/>
out" for a slot at 12 noon in a bid war.<br/>
<br/>
As the dueling bidders raise their <a href="own.htm">own</a> <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>e for that time slot, they<br/>
are *proving* that the <a href="curr.htm">curr</a>ent number of <a href="mac.htm">mac</a>hines cannot fill peak<br/>
demand, and - since that "<a href="pric.htm">pric</a>e above <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>" will be invested for the<br/>
winning bidder toward buying ANOTHER <a href="mac.htm">mac</a>hine <small>(because <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> is being<br/>
treated as <a href="pay.htm">Pay</a>er investment)</small>, the 'system' should be self-stablizing<br/>
as those extra <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>ments will be invested toward another <a href="mac.htm">mac</a>hine until<br/>
the number of <a href="mac.htm">mac</a>hines is sufficient to cover the needs of that<br/>
community.<br/>
<br/>
Furthermore, each sub-community that develops around each of those<br/>
<a href="mac.htm">mac</a>hines can then secede from the whole if they decide to treat their<br/>
<a href="new.htm">new</a> <a href="mac.htm">mac</a>hine in a <a href="diff.htm">diff</a>e<a href="rent.htm">rent</a> manner <small>(say changing the oil more often)</small>.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-21-2010:</span> Noticed <a class="ext" href="http://CartografiaCiudadana.net/index.php/Pula">CartografiaCiudadana.net/index.php/Pula</a><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-21-2010:</span> Posted to a private list<br/>
<br/>
Hey Dante,<br/>
<br/>
I like the <a class="ext" href="http://sharewiki.org/en/Leipzig_project">http://sharewiki.org/en/Leipzig_project</a> <a href="ide.htm">ide</a>a.<br/>
<br/>
I've been <a href="work.htm">work</a>ing <small>(on paper)</small> on a larger-scale solution that meets the minimum requirements needed to allow us to '<a href="pay.htm">pay</a>' ourselves by utilizing our <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tive outputs - eventually eliminating some of the reasons we <a href="curr.htm">curr</a>ently <a href="use.htm">use</a> <a href="mone.htm">mone</a>y.<br/>
<br/>
Here are my rough thoughts so far:<br/>
<br/>
----<br/>
'Regular' <a href="mone.htm">mone</a>y will probably be needed, especially at the <a href="start.htm">start</a>. But as we become <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tive, we can '<a href="pay.htm">pay</a>' ourselves from the value we create. So instead of trying to earn $10 to buy a meal, we avoid <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>ing the $10 by using Nature and tools to create the meal.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
We should charge a <a href="pric.htm">Pric</a>e above <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a> <small>(<a href="profit.htm">Profit</a>)</small> against the uninvested, but we must treat that extra income as that <a href="pay.htm">Pay</a>er's investment into more <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es of the type needed to supply another instance of the purchased <a href="obj.htm">Obj</a>ective. This will cause the <a href="new.htm">new</a>comer to also gain a foothold as we grow so he becomes an active <a href="part.htm">part</a> of the solution as a <a href="proper.htm">proper</a>ty <a href="co-own.htm">co-own</a>er along with the rest of us.<br/>
<br/>
----<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> Ways to invest:<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* Organize Customers to Pre-<a href="pay.htm">Pay</a> for an <a href="obj.htm">Obj</a>ective <small>(say shelter)</small>, then <a href="use.htm">use</a> those <a href="fund.htm">fund</a>s to buy the <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es <small>(group housing)</small>.<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* Organize Customers to Pre-<a href="pay.htm">Pay</a> for an <a href="obj.htm">Obj</a>ective <small>(say Almonds)</small>, then <a href="use.htm">use</a> those <a href="fund.htm">fund</a>s to buy the <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es <small>(Northern Almond Trees)</small>.<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* Attract <a href="skill.htm">skill</a>ed <a href="art.htm">Art</a>isans who will commit to supply the labor needed to achive our goals.<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* Attract regular Venture Capitalists if necessary.<br/>
<br/>
----<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> Ways to benefit:<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* Customers with <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>e <a href="own.htm">Own</a>ership get paid by receiving a <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>t "at <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>" as a side-effect of their <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership in the <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es of that <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>t.<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* <a href="work.htm">Work</a>ers receive Shelter, Food, Clothing, Sanitation as an rudimentary "Standard of <a href="liv.htm">Liv</a>ing" <small>(a Basic Outcome)</small>.<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* VCs receive a % of the <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> charged against the uninvested.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
----<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> <a href="spac.htm">Spac</a>e and Equipment <a href="rent.htm">rent</a>al: These supply a Basic Outcome for <a href="work.htm">Work</a> Inve<a href="stor.htm">stor</a>s and also attract more Customers as we continue to overgrow Capitalism.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* Private rooms that appears as a Hotel or A<a href="part.htm">part</a>ment to the uninvested.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* A group kitchen that appears as a Restaurant to the uninvested.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* <a href="stor.htm">Stor</a>age/Recycling/<a href="free.htm">Free</a> shop that appears as a <a href="rent.htm">Rent</a>al Agency and/or <a href="stor.htm">Stor</a>age Unit to the uninvested.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* Tools to create and repair wood and metal: initally <a href="use.htm">use</a>d to fix-up our Leipzig and later <a href="use.htm">use</a>d to attract more Customers <small>(who need such <a href="work.htm">work</a> done in their <a href="own.htm">own</a> homes)</small>.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* <a href="mac.htm">Mac</a>hines to wash, repair and create clothing and shoes appears as a Laundromat/Seamstress.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* <a href="compu.htm">Compu</a>ters running <a href="free.htm">Free</a> Software for programming, gaming, internet, etc. appears as a "Internet Cafe" and/or Video Arcade to the uninvested.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* Video/Music equipment and dance floor appears as a 'Club' to the uninvested.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* A large shared <a href="spac.htm">spac</a>e that appears as a Meeting Hall to the uninvested.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* Swimming pool, Sauna, weights, etc. appears as a 'GYM' to the uninvested.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
----<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> Permaculture: <a href="start.htm">Start</a> with gardening but concentrate on perinneals - especially trees for protein and and oils <small>(nuts, olives, avacados)</small>.<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* The output helps compensate Pre-<a href="pay.htm">Pay</a>ing Customers and Committed <a href="work.htm">Work</a>ers.<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* Any surplus can be sold to non-<a href="own.htm">own</a>ing Customers at a <a href="pric.htm">Pric</a>e above <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* When we run out of <a href="land.htm">land</a> <a href="own.htm">own</a>ed by us, we can offer contracted <a href="land.htm">land</a>scaping services <small>(Permascaping)</small> where the customer eventually <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>s no <a href="mone.htm">mone</a>y, but instead compensates by relinquishing a % of the output of those plants and animals.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> Re<a href="curr.htm">curr</a>ing <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a>s:<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span>* Taxes might be avoided if we can qualify as a not-for-<a href="profit.htm">profit</a> enterprise. Should we consider creating a religion as a supporting role? We could claim "Physical Salvation through Reverence for Nature".<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-17-2010:</span> Reading <a class="ext" href="http://www.metamute.org/en/content/artificial_scarcity_in_a_world_of_overproduction_an_escape_that_isn_t">http://www.metamute.org/en/content/artificial_scarcity_in_a_world_of_overproduction_an_escape_that_isn_t</a> <span class="quot2">>>But what is the <a href="sourc.htm">sourc</a>e of these <a href="profit.htm">profit</a>s? Since it requires ever less labour time to re<a href="produc.htm">produc</a>e their commodities <small>(the <a href="cost.htm">cost</a> of R&D may be high but has no bearing on the <a href="cost.htm">cost</a> of re<a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion)</small>, the <a href="part.htm">part</a> of it that is unpaid, surplus value, must fall too and thus cannot explain the rise of their <a href="profit.htm">profit</a>s. The <a href="profit.htm">profit</a> is surplus value but it comes from elsewhere: it is paid by the customers.</span><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-14-2010:</span> Noticed <a class="ext" href="http://LondonCreativeLabs.com">LondonCreativeLabs.com</a> <span class="quot2">>>London Creative Labs is a Social Business committed to ensuring decent <a href="work.htm">work</a> for everyone. It <a href="use.htm">use</a>s a unique and evolving combination of <a href="collab.htm">collab</a>oration and business <a href="mod.htm">mod</a>el innovation to generate <a href="new.htm">new</a> business opportunities that provide and/or enable <a href="work.htm">work</a>.</span><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-14-2010:</span> Noticed <a class="ext" href="http://SustainWeb.org">SustainWeb.org</a> <span class="quot2">>>Sustain: The alliance for better food and farming was launched at the UNED-UK hosted Healthy Planet Forum on 17 June 1999. It was formed by merging The National Food Alliance and the Sustainable Agriculture Food and Environment <small>(SAFE)</small> Alliance, both of which had been established for over 10 years.</span><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-14-2010:</span> Reading <a class="ext" href="http://Variant.org.uk/37texts/13RentTyranny.html">Variant.org.uk/37texts/13RentTyranny.html</a><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-14-2010:</span> Reading <a class="ext" href="http://YoungFoundation.org/files/images/Promising_Ideas.pdf">YoungFoundation.org/files/images/Promising_Ideas.pdf</a><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-14-2010:</span> Noticed <a class="ext" href="http://DoorsOfPerception.com/archives/2010/05/whole_whole_on.php">DoorsOfPerception.com/archives/2010/05/whole_whole_on.php</a><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-14-2010:</span> Some Problems with Cooperative Principles:<br/>
<br/>
<a class="ext" href="http://NCBA.coop/ncba/about-co-ops">NCBA.coop/ncba/about-co-ops</a><br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">"'<br/>
The International Cooperative Alliance has established seven Principles that define co-ops as <a href="part.htm">part</a> of the <a href="stat.htm">Stat</a>ement on the Co-operative <a href="ide.htm">Ide</a>ntity.<br/>
<br/>
1st Principle: Voluntary and Open Membership<br/>
<br/>
Co-operatives are voluntary organizations, open to all persons able to <a href="use.htm">use</a> their services and willing to accept the responsibilities of membership, without gender, social, racial, political or religious discrimination.<br/>
'"</span><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">"'<br/>
2nd Principle: Democratic Member Control<br/>
<br/>
Co-operatives are democratic organizations controlled by their members, who actively <a href="part.htm">part</a>icipate in setting their policies and <a href="mak.htm">mak</a>ing decisions. Men and women serving as elected representatives are accountable to the membership. In primary co-operatives members have equal voting rights <small>(one member, one vote)</small> and co-operatives at other levels are also organized in a democratic manner.<br/>
'"</span><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">"'<br/>
3rd Principle: Member <a href="econ.htm">Econ</a>omic <a href="part.htm">Part</a>icipation<br/>
<br/>
Members contribute equitably to, and democratically control, the capital of their co-operative. At least <a href="part.htm">part</a> of that capital is usually the common <a href="proper.htm">proper</a>ty of the co-operative. Members usually receive limited compensation, if any, on capital subscribed as a condition of membership. Members allocate surpluses for any or all of the following purposes: developing their co-operative, possibly by setting up reserves, <a href="part.htm">part</a> of which at least would be indivisible; benefiting members in <a href="prop.htm">prop</a>ortion to their transactions with the co-operative; and supporting other activities approved by the membership.<br/>
'"</span><br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">"'<br/>
4th Principle: Autonomy and Independence<br/>
<br/>
Co-operatives are autonomous, self-help organizations controlled by their members. If they enter to <a href="agree.htm">agree</a>ments with other organizations, including governments, or raise capital from external <a href="sourc.htm">sourc</a>es, they do so on terms that ensure democratic control by their members and maintain their co-operative autonomy.<br/>
'"</span><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">"'<br/>
5th Principle: Education, Training and Information<br/>
<br/>
Co-operatives provide education and training for their members, elected representatives, managers, and <a href="employ.htm">employ</a>ees so they can contribute effectively to the development of their co-operatives. They inform the public - <a href="part.htm">part</a>icularly young people and opinion leaders - about the nature and benefits of co-operation.<br/>
'"</span><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">"'<br/>
6th Principle: Co-operation among Co-operatives<br/>
<br/>
Co-operatives serve their members most effectively and strengthen the co-operative movement by <a href="work.htm">work</a>ing together through local, national, regional and international structures.<br/>
'"</span><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">"'<br/>
7th Principle: Concern for Community<br/>
<br/>
Co-operatives <a href="work.htm">work</a> for the sustainable development of their communities through policies approved by their members.<br/>
Bookmark and Share<br/>
'"</span><br/>
<br/>
Tyranny of the Majority<br/>
<br/>
The "one member, one vote" principle is similar to the "opt-out" problem caused when <a href="user.htm">user</a>s pre-<a href="pay.htm">pay</a> into a slush-<a href="fund.htm">fund</a> controlled by a committee.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-14-2010:</span> Noticed <a class="ext" href="http://Stop-Project.EU">Stop-Project.EU</a> <span class="quot2">>>SToP - Stop Tampering of <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>ts The SToP project aims at developing ambient intelligence-based and <a href="net.htm">net</a><a href="work.htm">work</a>-oriented systems for the efficient and secure authentication of <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>ts. It thereby helps to reduce the problems imposed by counterfeiting and <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>t privacy.</span><br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">"'<br/>
An important <a href="buil.htm">buil</a>ding block is the duality of existence, in the physical and the <a href="virt.htm">virt</a>ual world, for the secure authentication of <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>ts. The technological foundation is RFID <small>(Radio Frequency <a href="ide.htm">Ide</a>ntification)</small>, which allows secure tagging, reliable and easy-to-<a href="use.htm">use</a> <a href="ide.htm">ide</a>ntification, and dynamic authentication. The RFID label itself serves both as a security feature and as a bridge between the physical and the <a href="virt.htm">virt</a>ual, i.e. digital, world.<br/>
<br/>
The <a href="obj.htm">obj</a>ective of the SToP project is to create a solution for <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>t authentication, which satisfies a complex set of requirements. The solution must be secure, meaning that tags are <a href="protect.htm">protect</a>ed against manipulations and they must not be cloneable. Security is further supported through the tracking capabilities provided by RFID. It must be <a href="user.htm">user</a>-friendly and <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>-effective, being usable by a wide range of <a href="part.htm">part</a>ies such as manufacturers, vendors, customs authorities, and consumers. This helps to detect counterfeit goods as early as possible or even prevent them from entering into the supply chain in the first place. As a <a href="net.htm">net</a><a href="work.htm">work</a>-based solution, it supports the alignment and information of stakeholders. It encourages information sharing on counterfeiting related problems and promotes closer cooperation. It improves communication with consumers, providing them with better ways of risk mitigation and education.<br/>
'"</span><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-14-2010:</span> <a class="ext" href="http://Appropedia.org/Category:Poverty">http://Appropedia.org/Category:Poverty</a><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-14-2010:</span> Noticed <a class="ext" href="http://Incredible-Edible-Todmorden.co.uk">Incredible-Edible-Todmorden.co.uk</a><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-11-2010:</span> Not yet Posted to <a class="ext" href="http://ListCultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures">ListCultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures</a><br/>
<br/>
Created <a class="ext" href="http://Appropedia.org/GNP_Physical_Sharing_License">http://Appropedia.org/GNP_Physical_Sharing_License</a> the text of Sepp's e<a href="mail.htm">mail</a> for now.<br/>
<br/>
As this discussion continues I will need show why we must treat <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> more carefully than just hoping it doesn't exist. But that is usually a <a href="part.htm">part</a>y killer, so will wait until it is necessary.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
What I'm suggesting is mostly the same <a href="ide.htm">ide</a>a as "Customer <a href="own.htm">Own</a>ed <a href="net.htm">Net</a><a href="work.htm">work</a>s", but general enough to be <a href="use.htm">use</a>d in all types of <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion.<br/>
<br/>
Here are some references to what others have to say about this <a href="proper.htm">Proper</a>ty <a href="mod.htm">Mod</a>el.<br/>
<br/>
''According to Metcalfe's Law, the value of an internet connection rises with the number of <a href="user.htm">user</a>s on the <a href="net.htm">net</a><a href="work.htm">work</a>. However, the phone companies do not get to raise their <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>es in return for that increase in value. This is a matter of considerable frustration to them.<br/>
<br/>
The <a href="econ.htm">econ</a>omic logic of the market suggests that capital should be invested by whoever captures the value of the investment. The telephone companies are using that argument to suggest that they should either be given monopoly <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>ing power over the last mile, or that they should be allowed to vertically integrate content with conduit. Either strategy would allow them to raise <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>es by locking out the competition, thus <a href="restor.htm">restor</a>ing their coercive power over the customer and helping them extract <a href="new.htm">new</a> revenues from their internet subscribers.'' -- <a class="ext" href="http://Shirky.com/writings/zapmail.html">http://Shirky.com/writings/zapmail.html</a><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
''What's the best way to ensure "<a href="net.htm">net</a> neutrality?" Tim Wu, the Columbia Law School professor and Toronto native who first coined the term, has a simple suggestion: customer <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership of internet connections. Could consumers <a href="own.htm">own</a> their internet connections?'' -- <a class="ext" href="http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2008/12/01/tech-fibre.html">http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2008/12/01/tech-fibre.html</a><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
''CA * <a href="net.htm">net</a> 4 is similar to the first mini-<a href="compu.htm">compu</a>ter: instead of being invoiced and bandwidth <a href="use.htm">use</a>, the consumer takes possession of the <a href="net.htm">net</a><a href="work.htm">work</a>, it controls totally. He can do absolutely what he wants with the <a href="net.htm">net</a><a href="work.htm">work</a>. Rather than <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> each time the <a href="user.htm">user</a> "buys" the <a href="net.htm">net</a><a href="work.htm">work</a> once and for all.'' -- <a class="ext" href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Talk:Customer-Controlled_Networks">http://p2pfoundation.net/Talk:Customer-Controlled_Networks</a><br/>
More from Bill St Arnaud:<br/>
<a class="ext" href="http://free-fiber-to-the-home.blogspot.com">http://free-fiber-to-the-home.blogspot.com</a><br/>
<a class="ext" href="http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ARgRwniJ-qh6ZGdiZ2pyY3RfMjc3NmdmbWd4OWZr&hl=en">http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ARgRwniJ-qh6ZGdiZ2pyY3RfMjc3NmdmbWd4OWZr&hl=en</a><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Some are trying to create local wireless <a href="net.htm">net</a><a href="work.htm">work</a>s <a href="own.htm">own</a>ed by the <a href="user.htm">user</a>s such as <a class="ext" href="http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/06/22/18603456.php">http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/06/22/18603456.php</a> or the VillageTelco/MeshPotato guys, etc.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Google is considering helping the customer <a href="own.htm">own</a> the "last mile" of the internet connection through "Homes with Tails"<br/>
<a class="ext" href="http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/2008/11/homes-with-tails.html">http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/2008/11/homes-with-tails.html</a><br/>
<a class="ext" href="http://www.broadbandprime.com/2010/02/will-that-be-googles-ftth-business-model.html">http://www.broadbandprime.com/2010/02/will-that-be-googles-ftth-business-model.html</a><br/>
<a class="ext" href="http://greensboroistalking.com/2010/03/24/homes-with-tails">http://greensboroistalking.com/2010/03/24/homes-with-tails</a><br/>
<a class="ext" href="http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/netsys/article.php/3787661/Moores-Law-for-Broadband-or-Homes-With-Tails.htm">http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/netsys/article.php/3787661/Moores-Law-for-Broadband-or-Homes-With-Tails.htm</a><br/>
<a class="ext" href="http://www.newamerica.net/events/2008/homes_tails">http://www.newamerica.net/events/2008/homes_tails</a><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Sepp Hasslberger wrote:<br/>
<span class="quot">> There is no compelling reason to break down</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> the <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>e a <a href="user.htm">user</a> <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>s into <a href="cost.htm">cost</a> and above <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>.</span><br/>
<br/>
These values must be separated and treated very carefully<br/>
or we will have the same growing problems of nearly all<br/>
other organizations that tend to overaccumulate control<br/>
into the hands of a few - usually the originators.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">> In the context of the GNP Physical Sharing License, any <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>ment that must be</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> made for the <a href="use.htm">use</a> of the re<a href="sourc.htm">sourc</a>e is <a href="calc.htm">calc</a>ulated to <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> the <a href="cost.htm">cost</a> of</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> maintaining that re<a href="sourc.htm">sourc</a>e to keep it in good <a href="work.htm">work</a>ing order and, if needed,</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> of expanding the commonly <a href="own.htm">own</a>ed physical re<a href="sourc.htm">sourc</a>e to meet the demands of all</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> its <a href="user.htm">user</a>s.</span><br/>
<br/>
Yes, it is very important that we <a href="recover.htm">recover</a> the <a href="real.htm">real</a> <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a>s operation,<br/>
since otherwise we cannot maintain even a <a href="stat.htm">stat</a>ic size.<br/>
<br/>
But we will need even *more* value to grow the movement<br/>
so we can include more people.<br/>
<br/>
I wonder where that should come from...<br/>
<br/>
We could charge the <a href="user.htm">user</a>s slightly more than it <a href="real.htm">real</a>ly <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a><br/>
And <a href="use.htm">use</a> that <a href="diff.htm">diff</a>erence to increase <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
It turns out that <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> measures scarcity quite well,<br/>
So all we need to do is treat that "<a href="pric.htm">Pric</a>e above <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a>"<br/>
in the 'right' way to <a href="mak.htm">mak</a>e the system more stable.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Let's <a href="imag.htm">imag</a>ine a scenario where<br/>
If re<a href="sourc.htm">sourc</a>es are too low to meet peak demand<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Yes, we can share the <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>s of a '<a href="real.htm">real</a>' <small>(exposed IP)</small> server to host <a href="file.htm">file</a>s such as <a href="free.htm">Free</a> Software, Video, Music, etc. and applications such as e<a href="mail.htm">mail</a>, Social Software, etc.<br/>
<br/>
We can begin immediately to compete with <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>eForge, YouTube, G<a href="mail.htm">mail</a>, Facebook, etc. using the same kind of "Server Side" software instead of waiting for the P2P apps that are not quite completed yet.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-10-2010:</span> Watching <a class="ext" href="http://Appropedia.org/GNP_Physical_Sharing_License">http://Appropedia.org/GNP_Physical_Sharing_License</a><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-09-2010:</span> Posted to <a class="ext" href="http://ListCultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures">ListCultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures</a><br/>
<br/>
Alex Rollin wrote:<br/>
<span class="quot">> On a list like this, with thousands of members, it seems to me that</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> someday we'll get together and sponsor one of these servers.</span><br/>
<br/>
Yes, yes, I am very interested in this too. How can we share Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es?...<br/>
<br/>
And how can we share without accidentally becoming one of the same beasts we <a href="curr.htm">curr</a>ently fight <small>(facebook, Google, etc.)</small>.<br/>
<br/>
We need a detailed description of what to do and what not to do at each step so we can finally create a business <a href="mod.htm">mod</a>el that is better than *either* of Capitalism or Corporatism.<br/>
<br/>
This "Code of Conduct" would be a legal document that members of any group could apply to any material assets they intend to share.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
But we will need to simplify our analysis to find what we have been doing wrong and how to correct it.<br/>
<br/>
So let's <a href="start.htm">start</a> with just 2 people and see what we can discover:<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">> We can keep the <a href="profit.htm">profit</a>s without ever spending them!</span><br/>
<br/>
Hmm... If 2 people are sharing some tangible <a href="obj.htm">obj</a>ect <small>(say a <a href="compu.htm">compu</a>ter)</small>, is there such a thing as <a href="profit.htm">profit</a>?<br/>
<br/>
The 2 people must <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> for the <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>s to purchase, <a href="install.htm">install</a>, maintain, etc. the <a href="mac.htm">mac</a>hine.<br/>
<br/>
But I don't think they <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> <a href="profit.htm">profit</a> - for who would they <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> it to?<br/>
<br/>
Also, they do not 'earn' <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a>, but are instead paid in '<a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>t'. Their ROI is the very output of that <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion. In other words, they are <a href="own.htm">own</a>ing and <a href="work.htm">work</a>ing for <a href="use.htm">Use</a>-Value alone.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Ahhh, but if a 3rd person appears that does not yet have <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership, we can charge him more than <a href="real.htm">real</a> <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>s and thereby extract <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a>.<br/>
<br/>
Now, he could have avoided <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>ing <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> if he just had the <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership needed to <a href="protect.htm">protect</a> him...<br/>
<br/>
So if he could gain some <a href="proper.htm">proper</a>ty of his <a href="own.htm">own</a> - let's say we <a href="use.htm">use</a>d some of that <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> he just paid toward the purchase of another <a href="compu.htm">compu</a>ter that he and other late-comers would eventually <a href="co-own.htm">co-own</a>.<br/>
<br/>
Treating <a href="profit.htm">profit</a> as the <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>er's investment creates a negative-feed<a href="back.htm">back</a> loop that auto-levels re<a href="sourc.htm">sourc</a>e allocation <small>(growth only occurs during overbidding, and overbidding only occurs when growth is truly needed)</small>, distributes control to those who are willing to <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> for it <small>(in the end those who are willing to <a href="work.htm">work</a> for it)</small>, and safely drives <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> toward 0 while also creating a basis for <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion withou fear of automation or un<a href="employ.htm">employ</a>ment.<br/>
<br/>
Patrick Anderson<br/>
<a href="social sufficiency coalition.htm">Social Sufficiency Coalition</a><br/>
<a class="ext" href="http://SourceFreedom.BlogSpot.com">http://SourceFreedom.BlogSpot.com</a><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-09-2010:</span> Legislation in North Carolina will stop cities and towns from <a href="buil.htm">buil</a>ding their <a href="own.htm">own</a> high-speed Internet systems that could compete with the telecommunications companies. -- <a class="ext" href="http://www.indyweek.com/triangulator/archives/2010/06/02/anti-municipal-broadband-bill-passes-senate-finance">http://www.indyweek.com/triangulator/archives/2010/06/02/anti-municipal-broadband-bill-passes-senate-finance</a><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-09-2010:</span> Reading "Homes with Tails" -- <a class="ext" href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1306745">http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1306745</a><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-08-2010:</span> Reading "Could consumers <a href="own.htm">own</a> their internet connections?" -- <a class="ext" href="http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2008/12/01/tech-fibre.html">http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2008/12/01/tech-fibre.html</a><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-08-2010:</span> Reading <span class="quot">"'A personal perspective on the evolving Internet and Research and Education <a href="net.htm">Net</a><a href="work.htm">work</a>s'"</span> -- <a class="ext" href="http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ARgRwniJ-qh6ZGdiZ2pyY3RfMjc3NmdmbWd4OWZr&hl=en">http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ARgRwniJ-qh6ZGdiZ2pyY3RfMjc3NmdmbWd4OWZr&hl=en</a><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-03-2010:</span> Not yet Posted to <a class="ext" href="http://ListCultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures">ListCultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures</a><br/>
Subject: Prepaid <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>tion -- Why and how <a href="user.htm">User</a>s should assume their <a href="own.htm">own</a> Risk.<br/>
<br/>
We have been fooled into the false luxury of debt. We follow Wimpy <small>(of <a href="pop.htm">Pop</a>eye)</small> with his saying <span class="quot">"'I'll gladly <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> you Tuesday for a hamburger today'"</span>.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-03-2010:</span> Posted to <a class="ext" href="http://Mailman.Thing.net/pipermail/idc">Mailman.Thing.net/pipermail/idc</a> and <a class="ext" href="http://ListCultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures">ListCultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures</a><br/>
<br/>
Subject: Why do we, the <a href="user.htm">User</a>s beg instead of <a href="co-own.htm">co-own</a>ing for our <a href="own.htm">own</a> benefit?<br/>
<br/>
So many have written:<br/>
<span class="quot">> Why won't Facebook, Monsanto, ConAgra, Nike, Coca-Cola, Chiquita, etc.</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> do what *we*, the <a href="user.htm">User</a>s, want?</span><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Why won't *we*, the <a href="user.htm">User</a>s organize to purchase and therefore <a href="own.htm">OWN</a> the Means of <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>tion which we finally <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> for anyway?<br/>
<br/>
Why won't *we*, the <a href="user.htm">User</a>s buy the Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es such as <a href="compu.htm">Compu</a>ters, Farms, Factories, etc. so we only <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> for the <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a>s of <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion <small>(including wages)</small> and finally have complete control over how they are operated?<br/>
<br/>
Why do *we*, the <a href="user.htm">User</a>s beg those who have bought these things instead of taking the risk and responsibility of <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership upon ourselves?<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
I wonder if we will ever mature enough to get together and <a href="co-own.htm">co-own</a> the <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es of the things we need...<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Patrick Anderson<br/>
<a href="social sufficiency coalition.htm">Social Sufficiency Coalition</a><br/>
<a class="ext" href="http://SourceFreedom.BlogSpot.com">http://SourceFreedom.BlogSpot.com</a><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-02-2010:</span> Posted to <a class="ext" href="http://Vilfredo.org/viewquestion.php?q=91">Vilfredo.org/viewquestion.php?q=91</a><br/>
<br/>
The term "psychic <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>s" and the <a href="ide.htm">ide</a>as about "Nature" may be important, but they are not what I want to talk about with this question.<br/>
<br/>
I want to talk about the concept of '<a href="profit.htm">Profit</a>' as <a href="curr.htm">curr</a>ently defined at Wikipedia:<br/>
<br/>
<a class="ext" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_%28accounting%29">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_%28accounting%29</a> says:<br/>
<span class="quot">"'In accounting, <a href="profit.htm">profit</a> is the *<a href="diff.htm">diff</a>erence* between <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>e and the <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>s of bringing to market whatever it is that is accounted as an enterprise.'"</span> <small>(emphasis added)</small><br/>
<br/>
And <a class="ext" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_%28economics%29">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_%28economics%29</a> says:<br/>
<span class="quot">"'In neoclassical <a href="econ.htm">econ</a>omics, <a href="econ.htm">econ</a>omic <a href="profit.htm">profit</a>, or <a href="profit.htm">profit</a>, is the *<a href="diff.htm">diff</a>erence* between a firm's total revenue and its opportunity <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>s.'"</span> <small>(emphasis added)</small><br/>
<br/>
If we are not allowed to discuss this concept under the name '<a href="profit.htm">Profit</a>', then can we discuss it under a <a href="diff.htm">diff</a>e<a href="rent.htm">rent</a> name?<br/>
<br/>
How about the origin of <a class="ext" href="http://Wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_income">http://Wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_income</a> or <a class="ext" href="http://Wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_value_added">http://Wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_value_added</a> or <a class="ext" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Added_Value">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Added_Value</a> or <a class="ext" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added</a><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-02-2010:</span> Noticed <a class="ext" href="http://ClassWarGames.net">ClassWarGames.net</a> <span class="quot2">>>Comrades! Raise your glasses of champagne to mark Class War<a href="game.htm">game</a>s' decisive victory on the cultural front: the launch of our film on Guy Debord's The <a href="game.htm">Game</a> of War. For the first time, the Situationist politics of this military simulation are carefully explained in sound and vision. After watching this movie, opponents of spectacular capitalism will understand the importance of studying The <a href="game.htm">Game</a> of War. By playfully competing against each other over its board, they are learning the strategic and tactical <a href="skill.htm">skill</a>s required for success in the deadly struggle against the global bourgeoisie. In our film of Debord's <a href="game.htm">game</a>, Class War<a href="game.htm">game</a>s has divided these teachings from the battlefield into five <a href="sect.htm">sect</a>ions: terrain, combat, cavalry, arsenals and lines of communication. Analyse their insights with great care, fellow <a href="work.htm">work</a>ers. As the crisis of neo-<a href="lib.htm">lib</a>eralism intensifies, you will need this military <a href="know.htm">know</a>ledge to thwart the wicked schemes of <a href="bank.htm">bank</a>ers and bureaucrats. Remember well the lessons of socialist hi<a href="stor.htm">stor</a>y: clever tactics and smart strategy are our most powerful weapons...</span><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-01-2010:</span> The definition of a "Consumers' Cooperative" shows the consumers do not have <a href="real.htm">real</a>, final <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership and are not in full control, but have forfeited those rights to a committee that runs the organization largely the same as a for-<a href="profit.htm">profit</a> corporation.<br/>
<br/>
<a class="ext" href="http://Wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumers%27_cooperative">Wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumers%27_cooperative</a> tells us: <span class="quot">"'Every year members receive a share of the <a href="profit.htm">profit</a>s that they helped to create, based on the a<a href="mount.htm">mount</a> made in <a href="profit.htm">profit</a>s that year and the how much they had spent with any of its businesses.'"</span><br/>
<br/>
But <a href="profit.htm">profit</a> only occurs if the consumer is buying goods from an <a href="own.htm">own</a>er at some <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>e above <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>.<br/>
<br/>
So why are these consumers buying those goods? Aren't they the <a href="own.htm">own</a>ers already?<br/>
<br/>
A cooperative operating by the "Rochdale Principles" removes the connection between the Consumer and the <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es of their needs. This <small>(ignorantly or insidiously)</small> <a href="insur.htm">insur</a>es exchange, and therefore <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a>, is perpetuated.<br/>
<br/>
Under the system of <a href="proper.htm">Proper</a>ty<a href="left.htm">Left</a>, <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> tapers toward zero as <a href="proper.htm">proper</a>ty is distributed, and <a href="proper.htm">proper</a>ty is distributed each time a Consumer <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>s <a href="pric.htm">Pric</a>e above <a href="cost.htm">Cost</a> because that overpayment is invested *for* the <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>er in more <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es that finally become his <a href="own.htm">own</a> <a href="proper.htm">Proper</a>ty.<br/>
<br/>
Cooperatives are operated in a 'Democratic' manner with one vote per person, no matter how that person has invested.<br/>
<br/>
This is very <a href="diff.htm">diff</a>e<a href="rent.htm">rent</a> from how sharing <a href="work.htm">work</a>s between individuals or in very small club.<br/>
<br/>
Usually <a href="trad.htm">trad</a>ing goods occurs when the consumer has insufficient <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership in the Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es of that <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion - for when his <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership is sufficient, he does not 'buy' apples, but instead <a href="own.htm">own</a>s them already as a result of his <a href="own.htm">own</a>ing the trees and pre-<a href="pay.htm">pay</a>ing the <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>s of that <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion <small>(with Wages being one of those <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>s)</small>.<br/>
<br/>
A cooperative suffers the "Tyranny of the Majority" compliance because fees/taxes collected into a slush-<a href="fund.htm">fund</a> and then doled out by a committee-<a href="admin.htm">admin</a>istered entity<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> A CCC is not an <a href="admin.htm">admin</a>istrative entity and has no defined committee, but is merely an observation that many independent <a href="co-own.htm">co-own</a>ers using the CCCC may choose to <a href="work.htm">work</a> together for the benefits it brings. We define a CCC only for the purpose of easily talking about such groups of <a href="co-own.htm">co-own</a>ers, but that cooperation is neither mandatory nor centrally managed. The CCCC may even need a clause to help keep otherwise independent groups from being coerced into <a href="part.htm">part</a>icipating in governance or being drawn into clustering policies which some personalities will likely want to inflict during later stages of development.<br/>
<br/>
It is now clear to me how misleading it is to utilize the term 'cooperative' since that word is <a href="trad.htm">trad</a>itionally envisioned as an overarching entity of control instead of the loosely connected independent groups of <a href="co-own.htm">co-own</a>ers which the CCCC would foster.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="h2">==<a href="own.htm">Own</a>ership of the outputs</span><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> A CC entity <a href="own.htm">own</a>s the outputs of <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion and sells those goods <a href="back.htm">back</a> to each individual consumer/<a href="own.htm">own</a>er - causing <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>e above <a href="cost.htm">cost</a> even if consumer/<a href="own.htm">own</a>er had sufficient <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership to have been the <a href="own.htm">own</a>er of those goods already.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> When using the CCCC, the individual <a href="own.htm">own</a>ers of each individual Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>e is the <a href="own.htm">own</a>er of the ouputs of that <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion, so goods are not sold unless the <a href="own.htm">own</a>er decides he has an 'excess' and chooses to do so - but in that case <a href="profit.htm">profit</a> must be treated as an investment from the <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>er.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> A CC may have arbitrary conditions of <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership applied homogenously to all Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es across the entire cooperative such as <span class="quot">"'Membership is open to everyone as long as they share the Group's values and principles.'"</span> <small>[ <a class="ext" href="http://Wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Co-operative_Group">Wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Co-operative_Group</a> ]</small><br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> The CCCC has only one condition of <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership: If the <a href="own.htm">own</a>ers of an <a href="obj.htm">obj</a>ect under the CCCC choose to sell, give, <a href="rent.htm">rent</a>, <a href="trad.htm">trad</a>e, share, <a href="prop.htm">prop</a>agate or convey that <a href="obj.htm">obj</a>ect - any <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>e above <a href="cost.htm">cost</a> must be retained by the <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>er as a receipt of investment in more <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tive <a href="sourc.htm">sourc</a>es. This investment is <a href="curr.htm">curr</a>ently <a href="know.htm">know</a>n as a <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>t Future.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="h2">== Treatment of <a href="profit.htm">profit</a></span><br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> A CC treats <a href="profit.htm">profit</a> as a reward for the <a href="curr.htm">curr</a>ent <a href="own.htm">own</a>ers: <span class="quot">"'Every year members receive a share of the <a href="profit.htm">profit</a>s that they helped to create, based on the a<a href="mount.htm">mount</a> made in <a href="profit.htm">profit</a>s that year and the how much they had spent with any of its businesses.'"</span> But <a href="profit.htm">profit</a> only occurs when a consumer must buy the good, and that only occurs when he has insufficient <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership in the Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es - for when his <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership is sufficient, he should not need to 'buy' apples, but would instead <a href="own.htm">own</a> them already as a result of his <a href="own.htm">own</a>ing the Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es and <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>ing the <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>s of <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> The CCCC is a <a href="trad.htm">Trad</a>e <a href="agree.htm">Agree</a>ment that requires <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>e above <a href="cost.htm">cost</a> be treated as an investment from the <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>er so that latecomers gain <a href="proper.htm">proper</a>ty in <a href="new.htm">new</a> Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es at the rate they are willing and able to <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> A CC is supposedly 'democratic' in that each member has one vote over the operation of the *entire* cooperative no matter the a<a href="mount.htm">mount</a> they have invested. This has Tyranny of the Majority problems, gives <a href="new.htm">new</a>comers too much weight compared to more established members and will probably lead to 'representative' governance.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="bullet">*</span> The CCCC creates extremely localized governance because it is applied solely by the <a href="co-own.htm">co-own</a>ers of each indivisible Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>e. The only mandatory laws are embodied within the CCCC and enforced by the private-<a href="proper.htm">proper</a>ty laws of the 'containing' city, <a href="stat.htm">stat</a>e and nation. <a href="own.htm">Own</a>ers using the CCCC might enforce extra restrictions upon the <a href="use.htm">use</a>, <a href="mod.htm">mod</a>ification, copying and sharing of their physical <a href="proper.htm">proper</a>ty instances as long as those restrictions do not violate the CCCC.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jun-01-2010:</span> <a class="ext" href="http://P2PFoundation.net/Cooperatives_-_Discussion">P2PFoundation.net/Cooperatives_-_Discussion</a> says <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership must be separated from voting rights to keep the coop from turning into a for-<a href="profit.htm">profit</a> enterprise.<br/>
<br/>
This attempts to solve problems caused by the misapplication of <a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> through a reduction in divisibility.<br/>
</p>
<p class='footer'>
Page generated from <a href=".text/diary-jun-2010">diary-jun-2010</a> by <a href=".code/etym.el">etym</a>.</p>
</body>
</html>